Jo Walton ([info]papersky) wrote,
@ 2003-03-17 10:15:00
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Bach and the survival of Christianity
Yesterday afternoon, we all went to hear Bach's St John's Passion, with period instruments and in its liturgical context, in the rather Mackintoshy downtown church of St Andrew and St Paul.

The music was wonderful. I only have it on vinyl so I haven't heard it for ages, and it was just terrific live, and the singers were amazing. The guy singing the evangelist, the baritone, was an instrument, he really was, the counter-tenor was unbelieveable (I didn't think there still were any) and the way the choir all works together and against itself in parts, is lovely. It was also so neat to see it being conducted -- the conductor looked like a mad scientist, he was leaping about in little jumps, and seeing him bring in just a touch of instrument under a single voice to underline for a moment, the tones together was marvellous. I was deeply enthused.

In the computer game Civilization, Bach's cathedral is a wonder of the world and makes two people in every city content for all time. I was one of them yesterday. (In Civilization, the United Nations is also a wonder, and one which means people always have to talk and can't just attack each other wantonly. I keep thinking about this recently.)

The liturgical context was in one sense very cool. Imagine going to church on Good Friday thinking you'd be suffering through the three hours and the stations of the cross like every year, and having that explode in your face! The story of the passion was there, and it was slowly getting dark outside as it went on, which worked very well. The choristors processed in at the beginning, there was an opening prayer, all cool. There was, however, a sermon in the middle that was a problem.

It's not my religion. I am polite to all religions, it's a religion I have studied in a historical context, and what's more I was brought up in the Church of England, it's an ancestral family religion. It is not my religion, I cannot go along with one jealous God. But it was Bach's religion, and I feel indignant on Bach's behalf -- look, Bach went to a lot of trouble to write this religious music to bring people to church, and look, there I was in church, me, and there Rysmiel was who abhors church, and Zorinth who is even more of a little heathen than I thought. Having got us there, Bach deserved better than a Nestorian sermon that made a mockery of the whole thing.

St. John's Passion was written for Good Friday. Therefore, naturally, it stops with Jesus in the tomb. Resurrection has to wait for Easter. (I do hope this isn't a spoiler...) Nevertheless, the mystery of the Incarnation is not that Jesus was a very nice person who died. The world is full of very nice people who die, good grief, very nice people die every day and we do not found major world religions about them. The point of Christianity is that Jesus was the Son of God who was born as a human being, lived as a human being, died by crucifixion on Friday and on Sunday came alive again. If you don't believe that you are not a Nicene Christian.

Redemption did not come from his death, but from his victory over death, the combination of his death and ressurection. Really dead, really alive again. (I could believe that quite cheerfully, as long as nobody required exclusivity. I could happily go along with a Nicene Creed that started, as in one Credo variant "I believe in many gods including...")

I did not stand up and recite the Nicene Creed, or otherwise denounce the minister as a heretic and a Nestorian. The world appears to be full of Nestorians and Monophysites and outright Manicheans, and it is none of my business, if nobody within their religion seems to mind.

I just strongly objected to the misinterpretation of Bach.

Maybe, I said, as we were coming out at the end, the music still ringing in us, maybe in another thousand years, the whole religion will be remembered only as a footnote to Bach. "And Milton," Rysmiel added. But on reflection, I think the King James Bible will continue to be read as poetry.

Bach is dead, the music will live forever.


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[info]truepenny
2003-03-17 08:03 am UTC (link)
The counter-tenor is an institution that has been revived in recent years. There are some really excellent recordings. I've got Dufay's Chansons from Naxos with the counter-tenor Bernhard Landauer, also albums of lute songs by Thomas Campion and John Dowland (likewise from Naxos), with Steven Rickards singing and Dorothy Linell on lute. More details can be forthcoming if you're interested; otherwise just consider this the ObRandomTrivia for today from yrs trly.

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[info]papersky
2003-03-17 09:19 am UTC (link)
They're not castrati, are they?

I found myself thinking about "Mikal's Songbird" at one point during the performance.

I think my recording of the St John's Passion, which is quite old, has a woman singing that part.

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[info]jenett
2003-03-17 09:42 am UTC (link)
Nope. Definitely not.

The St. Matthew's Passion we did in high school (in translation, but otherwise almost the whole thing: I think they cut three small choral bits) had several counter-tenor solos in it. Sung by people I was in school with, who were otherwise accomplished tenors for their age, and definitely not castrati.

It's not uncommon to have women do them, but counter-tenors have a different sound quality which is also cool. For me, it's one of those 'embrace the power of 'and'' things - I like women's voices singing the bits I've heard counter tenors, and I like counter tenors too. They're just different results in some ways.

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[info]truepenny
2003-03-17 10:17 am UTC (link)
Like [info]jenett said, no. Not castrati. Men, especially tenors, can use their head voice to get a lot higher than one might think. (My high school chorus teacher may have been a ditz in a lot of ways, but my god could she train teenagers to sing.) I don't know exactly how counter-tenors work, or how they train, but they've still got all their bits. I like counter-tenors because they sound more unearthly than women, but if I try to explain or justify that, I'm just going to flounder.

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[info]papersky
2003-03-17 10:31 am UTC (link)
Unearthly, yes. Women's voices go thin somewhere when they get really high. I'm highly relieved they're not castrati, I was almost wondering if this was a career suggested to people who have unfortunate sports injuries. Good. And amazing, too, that the human voice has that range.

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[info]oracne
2003-03-18 09:43 am UTC (link)
Some countertenors are baritones, as well; they have a slightly darker falsetto tone that I really like.

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[info]oracne
2003-03-18 09:41 am UTC (link)
Chanticleer, the King's Singers, and the Hilliard Ensemble all have excellent countertenors.

I also like Derek Lee Ragin; we had him one year as alto soloist for The Messiah. Wow! He's done some recordings with the Boston Camerata, as well.

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[info]planetalyx
2003-03-17 08:07 am UTC (link)
I haven't thought about the role of Bach's Cathedral in CIVILIZATION in ages... and I used to play obsessively, too. Hardly your main point, but I appreciated the reminder.

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[info]trinker
2003-03-17 08:35 am UTC (link)
I know about Manicheans, but I don't know about Nestorians and Monophysites...so I guess I'll add them to my list of "things to learn today".

I'm glad you wrote about all this. Almost as good as being there. Better, in some ways.

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[info]browngirl
2003-03-17 10:08 am UTC (link)
I'm glad you wrote about all this. Almost as good as being there. Better, in some ways.

This, definetely this. :)

A.

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[info]womzilla
2003-03-17 09:39 am UTC (link)
I believe that it is currently the doctrine of the Roman Catholic church that the Crucifixion was sufficient for mankind's redemption. The Resurrection was the showing forth of God's glory and the *effect* of the redemption--that is, triumph over death, life everlasting, free on-street parking, and all of that jazz.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss as Nestorian, Monophysite, or Manichaen a discussion of the Crucifixion in terms of the price of the suffering of Christ's human nature. Since I wasn't at the sermon, I can't judge, but back when I was a Christian, I heard several deeply moving and faith-filled sermons focusing on Jesus's human nature and mentioning his divine nature almost not at all; in my mind, it's an important counterweight to the overemphasis on the Godhead which so much practical Christianity has. Christ was God, but God was also Jesus. The most important message of Christianity is not, to me, "Love God with all your heart", but "Whatever you do to the least among you, that you do to me."

Just noodling. Don't mind me. Nothing to see here; move along.

Glad you liked the performance!


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[info]wordweaverlynn
2003-03-17 11:17 am UTC (link)
There's a lot to address in your beautiful post, and I agree that Bach alone is enough to bring joy to civilization. Friday is his birthday, a day I celebrate annually with an orgy of music. But I only have time for a note on being a polytheistic Christian. We do exist.

I'm a believing Christian, deeply involved in my church. I came to the local Episcopal Church partly for the superb music, partly because I didn't want to split my time and heart between my Quaker congregation and Michele's Episcopal one. (I was raised Baptist.)

When I recite the creed, I say, "I believe in God the Mother, creator of Heaven and earth." The pastor and congregation are warm and accepting. They know Michele and I are a couple, and they know Michele is married, too. They even know she's a practicing Wiccan -- she calls herself an Episcopagan. It's OK that I believe in the Goddess. It's OK that I also believe -- absolutely in my bones -- in a Divine and resurrected Jesus. We all come to the same table.

And as the rector welcomes people at the beginning of the service, she says, “Whoever you are, wherever you are on your journey of faith, you are welcome here.”

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[info]camwyn
2003-03-17 11:21 am UTC (link)
In the latest version of Civilization, the United Nations is a bit different. If you build it, they ask you if you want to hold elections for Secretary-General. Whoever wins those elections wins the game. They suggest you built it rather than letting an enemy do so, because that way you can refuse to hold elections.

At least Bach's Cathedral still works the way it ought.

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[info]papersky
2003-03-17 02:28 pm UTC (link)
It wouldn't run on my computer, and it's just as well, that's stupid.

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[info]marykaykare
2003-03-17 11:42 am UTC (link)
Therefore, naturally, it stops with Jesus in the tomb. Resurrection has to wait for Easter. (I do hope this isn't a spoiler...)

This made me laugh. Thanks, I needed that.

MKK

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[info]misia
2003-03-17 01:13 pm UTC (link)
If you don't mind me slipping into my formerly-a-professional-singer super hero outfit for a moment...

Countertenors come in three flavours: the most common two are those whose voices naturally include the alto or even soprano range as part of their upper register (these would be the "high tenor" countertenors), and those whose natural range is significantly lower, in what's normally the low tenor or baritone range, but who have a sort of "pop-up" register that goes into the alto/soprano ranges. The "pop up" variety usually have a range gap between the top of their natural register and the bottom of their "pop-up" register where the tone color and ability to support the sound well gets a bit funky; one way to determine what kind of voice you're really hearing is to listen carefully to the bottom of the countertenor's sung range.

Similarly, some tenor-countertenors tend to get a weird hootiness in their tone that singers call "covering" the sound (e.g. Alfred Deller); it was the fashionable sound during the countertenor revival (spearheaded by the masterful Mr. Deller), but is now more likely to be seen as a liability than an asset.

And then, of course, there are simply men whose natural range is countertenor, like Brian Asawa, whom I adore. It does happen, just as there are biological women who naturally sing tenor or even baritone (a friend of mine wrote her dissertation on the "lady baritone," a handful of whom were popular variety concert artists in the late 19th century). No artificial ingredients, colours, flavours, or snip-snip required.

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[info]truepenny
2003-03-17 02:19 pm UTC (link)
Thanks! 'Cause I like knowing more than I did half a minute ago. *g*

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[info]redbird
2003-03-17 04:06 pm UTC (link)
All I can dredge up about Nestorians at the moment is that this was the form of Christianity that Genghis Khan almost made the state religion, and that the Assyrian church is Nestorian. Oh, and that it's from "Nestorius" rather than Nestor. But nothing about what they believed.

I am slightly boggled at the idea of Zorinth being even more of a heathen than you had thought--how is that possible?

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[info]papersky
2003-03-17 04:15 pm UTC (link)
He asked me if the cross was the Christian symbol because Jesus died on one.

I'm used to him trying to loot lecterns ("But they don't even worship eagles!") but I thought he had more basic knowledge of Christianity than that.

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[info]oracne
2003-03-18 09:38 am UTC (link)
Bach is dead, the music will live forever.

Yes.

I'd love to hear the St. John live--I have a recording, but it doesn't get many performances.

My choir is now working on Bach's St. Matthew Passion, for a May 18th performance. I am so excited I can barely talk about it. It will be my first Bach Passion ever (I've never done the B Min Mass, either).

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