Jo Walton ([info]papersky) wrote,
@ 2008-11-23 10:17:00
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The Bacchae, Chocolat, gods, forgiveness and eucatastrophe.
Last night we went to see a production of The Bacchae at McGill.

I've wanted to see The Bacchae since, oh, since I read The Mask of Apollo, so let's call that an even thirty years. It's not performed very often. The audience last night were an interesting mix of people who'd also clearly wanted to see The Bacchae all their lives and friends of the actors. The stage was pretty much circular, and the seating was chairs set up all around it with spaces between. The action took place in all the spaces, there were times when there was a whirling chorus of maenads weaving between chairs. This is a very kinetic production, very powerful, amazingly choreographed. The actors are all very good, especially those playing Dionysos and Agave. It's well worth seeing, and it's on again Wednesday to Saturday next week. I may see it again -- it's only $10.

The play is about the introduction of the worship of the new god Dionysos, god of wine, madness and inspiration. He comes to Thebes, his mother's country, and those who refuse to worship him he drives mad. It's cleverly paced so that in the first part you have the invitation, then the rejection, then the madness first of Pentheus and then of his mother Agave who has literally torn him limb from limb. (Offstage, but she comes in covered in blood and carrying his head, which is quite enough.) Dionysos is quite terrifying. Our sympathy is directed to him at first, when he is imprisoned, and Pentheus refuses to listen, but his revenge is quite implacable. This is a god unlike our conception of gods. I was thinking that especially with the imprisonment and the fetters breaking -- it's like Jesus being imprisoned before the Crucifixion, and it's even more like the bit in Acts where Peter walks out of prison, except that it isn't at all. This is a god who would laugh at the concepts of forgiveness and atonement. This is a god with a mortal mother who has come to offer a specific good and if it is rejected isn't going to take that. You could really play up that contrast -- they didn't, this is all in my head, but you can count on a modern audience having some knowledge of the Passion story, and you really could.

One thing I didn't like in this production was the chorus, which was done very rhythmically and in chorus. I liked their movements and dancing, I liked how they transformed from a chorus of maenads to a chorus of soldiers, but I didn't like their chanting delivery. I'd have liked to have had their parts done as songs, as loud rock songs. I can imagine a very interesting film in which Dionysos is like Elvis with his music and wildness seducing the respectable matrons of the small town his mother left, with explicit Jesus parallels and where your sympathy is all for the people going to hear the music until they start ripping people to shreds. Talking about that afterwards Z and I came up with actual existing rock songs you could use for that.

And from that, I thought of Chocolat. (I've only seen the movie, not read the book, and I saw the movie on DVD a little while ago.) Chocolat is, plotwise, The Bacchae, except with chocolate instead of wine. Now that's a perfectly sensible thing to do. There are only so many plots, and this one isn't overdone. The chocolate is explicitly magical, she's explicitly a demigod, driven on the wind, she comes to the town and opens the chocolaterie and they reject it. But it isn't The Bacchae quite, because it's cheapened by being sentimentalised, and by having a sentimental happy ending. That ending is made possible by the concepts of forgiveness that have run so deeply through Western society in the last couple of thousand years. And that's a good thing, I mean forgiving people and all being friends is actually better for society than rending people limb from limb -- well mostly. But it doesn't make for such good art, because you get tragedy free, people's brains are wired for tragedy, but you have to make them buy eucatastrophe. You have to earn it, and Chocolat doesn't, for me anyway. It should end with a wild chocolate bacchanal, instead of a tame one.

The Bacchae is brilliant though.

Not even Necessity knows all ends,
the gods brings the unthought to be,
as here we see.


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[info]tithenai
2008-11-23 03:23 pm UTC (link)
That show sounds amazing. I'd never heard of The Bacchae -- I hope I don't have to wait thirty years to see it!

I recommend reading Chocolat. I saw the movie before reading the book, and that helps me see them as two very separate entities. Except that Juliette Binoche is still totally the main character in my head.

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[info]yunitsa
2008-11-23 03:25 pm UTC (link)
Just over a year ago, I saw the production of The Bacchae with Alan Cumming as Dionysus at the Edinburgh Festival (I think it's since gone to New York) - they did the Chorus as gospel singers, which was quite interesting. And the last section with the head was absolutely harrowing, even when you can clearly see that it's a fake head.

I'd wanted to see it since reading The Mask of Apollo too.

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[info]papersky
2008-11-23 03:35 pm UTC (link)
What they did with the head was quite interesting. When Dionysos was disguising Pentheus he painted his face weird colours, and the head was a papier mache mask in those colours, with a wig, with blank staring eyes. It was really effective.

Gospel singers would be a very interesting way of doing it. Z wanted a Cole Porter style chorus or a Bollywood one, and [info]rysmiel was thinking Rocky Horror.

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[info]daystreet
2008-11-24 11:59 pm UTC (link)
There was (and is on tape or DVD or something) a stunning gospel adaptation of Oedipus at Colonus done back in the 80s called The Gospel at Colonus. Oedipus was played, as a group, by the Blind Boys of Alabama.

I wept openly and profusely at the end of it. It was one of the most powerful theater pieces I have ever seen. I take that back. It is the most powerful theater I have ever seen.

And take my word for it... for quite some time now, it's been pretty stinkin' hard to get a piece of theater to impress me...

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Eek! Thank you!!
[info]epacris
2008-11-27 04:19 am UTC (link)
The Gospel at Colonus on DVD has *just* been released by New Video Group! Thank you very much for reminding me of it, I've been looking to get a version for a couple of years now, and didn't know this was on its way. **hums while contemplating Christmas present for self**

I'm not sure which production it is, but I suspect it's not the same as the CDs which are also available.

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Re: Eek! Thank you!!
[info]daystreet
2008-11-27 11:34 am UTC (link)
Looks like the WNET (nyc ch 13) broadcast. I've seen it. Spectacular. I note at Amazon there are 6 reviews, all six stars, all gushing. I'm not kidding. This thing is a wonder.

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[info]jhetley
2008-11-23 03:32 pm UTC (link)
I've visualized the chorus chanting to "Carmina Burana" -- some forms of rock would work.

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[info]aella_irene
2008-11-23 03:54 pm UTC (link)
I studied The Bacchae last year, and all my sympathy is with Pentheus. Because what he's doing is dealing with a big problem. The women have all gone- they've left their children, even the nursing babies, and their husbands, and their jobs, and it isn't any good for the city. And his job, as king, is to fix that.

As for what he says about Semele, I can see his point, because here's his weird cousin coming and saying, "You know my mum always said my dad was Zeus? She was right!", and Pentheus probably spent his entire childhood with his mother and his aunts talking about Semele, and those strange excuses she made for her illegitimate child. The audience knows that Dionysos is telling the truth. Pentheus doesn't, and it makes perfect sense for him not to believe Dionysos.

I would really like to see that performance, such a shame I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic.

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[info]therck
2008-11-23 04:40 pm UTC (link)
Have you read An Exercise for Madmen by Barbara Paul? It's not a book I'll ever reread because it's too hard for me to read tragedy. It's a science fiction retelling of The Bacchae. I did a paper comparing the two during my freshman year of college for an assignment to take one of the Greek tragedies we read in class and compare it with a more recent adaptation (we also studied some adaptations).

My professor had never seen anyone write an modern reinterpretation of The Bacchae, so I got a few extra points for novelty. (I think I also had to loan her the book to prove that it existed, but that was twenty-three years ago, so my memory is hazy. I may just have had to show it to her.)

My finding it was purest serendipity as I found it in a used book store and picked it up because I liked some of Paul's mysteries. I had no idea that the assignment was coming up or that the book was a retelling of The Bacchae.

I think I'd be fascinated to see a production of The Bacchae. It's not at all a comfortable play.

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[info]coth
2008-11-24 05:04 pm UTC (link)
I've had that book unread on my shelves for years, and it has survived multiple culls because I still think I'm going to read it one day. Thank you for the comment, which increases my chances of picking it up sometime soon. I liked the only other book of Paul's I ever read

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[info]casacorona
2008-11-23 05:08 pm UTC (link)
Oh envy! I would love to see a production of The Bacchae. Thank you for writing about it.

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[info]ashnistrike
2008-11-23 05:22 pm UTC (link)
This is a god with a mortal mother who has come to offer a specific good and if it is rejected isn't going to take that.

Except, of course, that some Christian fundamentalists see it exactly that way. You have to accept their god, and worship in a specific way, or he'll send you to Hell and you'll burn for eternity. This is not more gentle than ripping people to shreds.

Which would still be an interesting parallel, mind you. Especially if you could manage to reference both the forgiving and unforgiving versions at the same time...

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[info]browngirl
2008-11-24 03:30 pm UTC (link)
Oooh, I was just thinking about that, in a less organized manner than you've stated it here. *contemplates*

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[info]sovay
2008-11-23 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I've wanted to see The Bacchae since, oh, since I read The Mask of Apollo, so let's call that an even thirty years.

I've wanted to see that production—leopard-eyed Dionysos, Pentheus who is not a villain and the godgame still tears him down. There was an acclaimed performance by the ART when I was in high school, but I didn't find out about it until it was over. The closest thing I've ever seen is the original Wicker Man.

I can imagine a very interesting film in which Dionysos is like Elvis with his music and wildness seducing the respectable matrons of the small town his mother left, with explicit Jesus parallels and where your sympathy is all for the people going to hear the music until they start ripping people to shreds.

If it doesn't make it to film, I want you to write it.

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[info]zwol
2008-11-23 06:43 pm UTC (link)
I've forwarded this to my sister, who writes plays and has been a scholar of Greek tragedy for many years.

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[info]marith
2008-11-23 07:04 pm UTC (link)
That sounds fascinating, although I would not have the guts to see it in person. And yes, an Elvis version sounds perfect. Perhaps with that "Black Velvet" pop song.

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[info]rysmiel
2008-11-24 05:36 pm UTC (link)
I'm more inclined to more recent rock music, actually. Queen's "Don't Stop Me Now" would be just perfect, and "Love Will Tear Us Apart" perhaps too much so.

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[info]davidgoldfarb
2008-11-23 09:27 pm UTC (link)
This sounds very cool. I read The Bacchae last year, and I would love to see it performed.

My impression of the play is that Euripides gives both sides their virtues, then in painstaking detail points out the flaws of their virtues...and then refuses to choose between them. One side wins, but that's not at all the same thing.

You note the parallel between the prison breaks in the play and in Acts; there are a number of people out on the web who consider that the one was directly stolen from the other. Further, when Saul is told on the road to Damascus "It's hard to kick against the pricks", the Greek is exactly the same phrase as something Dionysus says to Pentheus. (Line 794 of The Bacchae vs. Acts 26:15.)

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[info]papersky
2008-11-24 12:01 am UTC (link)
Good gracious, I had no idea.

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[info]epacris
2008-11-27 04:10 am UTC (link)
My goodness. Checking that Acts quote, I ran into this rather extraordinary linguistic biblical resource, scripturetext.com. See http://scripturetext.com/acts/26-14.htm. and http://biblos.com/acts/26-14.htm for the Greek version.

There are some wonderful resources out there.

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[info]mmseason
2008-11-30 03:24 pm UTC (link)
Euripides gives both sides their virtues, then in painstaking detail points out the flaws of their virtues...and then refuses to choose between them.
He does that in the Medea as well, devastatingly. Hence the opposing schools of thought that say he was a feminist and misogynist. Love it.

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[info]mjlayman
2008-11-24 02:20 am UTC (link)
LJ is working again, but I mean what I said in the email.

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[info]papersky
2008-11-24 04:13 pm UTC (link)
I can't bear to write plays because they'd never be real.

You can make a poem real by reading it yourself, or a novel either. A play needs a co-operative effort that it mostly doesn't get. I'd write plays if I knew people who wanted to perform them.

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[info]coth
2008-11-24 05:06 pm UTC (link)
You could probably find people to do that with you, if you tried. A guy called David B. Wake is managing that this side of the pond.

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[info]mjlayman
2008-11-24 10:10 pm UTC (link)
I think there would be lots of people who would want to perform them, and I'm not just counting fans. Talk to Michael Weholt about it.

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[info]daystreet
2008-11-25 12:11 am UTC (link)
You are correct. Theater companies will kill (dismembering optional) for interesting scripts.

(a) find a company whose work you admire and respect,
(b) get them a script,
(c) if the script is good, they will want to do it,
(d) experience the joy, horror, sorrow, disappointment and elation of having your play produced.

The trick is picking people to do it whose work you find invigorating, innovative, theatrically effective, etc. There are, percentage-wise, as many shlocky theater companies out there as there are shlocky playwrights. Don't submit to places whose work you don't know and admire.

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[info]daystreet
2008-11-25 12:05 am UTC (link)
The collaboration is the best part! You go away and work in your cave... then you emerge and -- believe me -- there will be people dying to work with your script.

And so you get to revel, bathe, dare I say, in all this community effort.

The best part is, of course, because you are the playwright, people involved with the production look on you as the Font of All Knowledge. Milk that for a while, for ego-boo, but then talk yourself into believing the truth of the matter which is that a good director and most especially committed actors are the best friends a script could ever have and they should be listened to intently.

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[info]embryomystic
2008-11-30 04:58 am UTC (link)
I'd very much like to perform in a play by Jo Walton.

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another take on Bacchae
[info]phillip_eagan
2008-11-24 05:56 am UTC (link)
If you like the Bacchae, might want to read a novel out now called NIGHT OF THE FURIES. Its a kind of contemporary take on the play, written as a thriller, about two American brothers and a Dutch woman in the Greek Isles who uncover a secret Dionysian cult. I just finished it, and can't get it out of my head. Really great.

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[info]rushthatspeaks
2008-11-24 06:03 am UTC (link)
There actually is a legendarily unreleased film version from the early '00s that was supposedly trying to do about what you describe in terms of rock music, but which never got a theatrical distributer; the hearsay from the test audiences was fairly spectacular, so I don't know what happened.

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[info]fledgist
2008-11-24 12:57 pm UTC (link)
I recently saw -- after decades of wanting to see it -- a performance of Antigone done as a musical. It was brilliantly conceived and performed.

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[info]mmseason
2008-11-24 03:20 pm UTC (link)
I have been mad about (crazy like??) the Bacchae since doing it at school. I love the moral ambiguities and depth - does it sound too pseudy to say Euripides is my favourite Greek tragedian?(!) I love your Elvis idea.

Also hadn't made the connection with Chocolat - which conversely i've only read, not watched.

I'm afraid 'very rhythmically and in chorus' is authentic.

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[info]papersky
2008-11-24 04:09 pm UTC (link)
Yes, and it works in Greek. I saw Electra done in the original at Epidavros and that was fine. But English does not work that way. Greek naturally falls into hexameter, English naturally falls into iambic pentameter. When you chant hexameters you're fine, pentameter not so much. You can easily test this at home by chanting Hiawatha and then any blank verse Shakespeare.

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Hm.
[info]mmseason
2008-11-30 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Fair enough, i hadn't thought of that.
When i saw the Bacchae (years ago) it was in Greek! so no such problem.

I still think it could work... but, yep, now doubt whether it would in almost any instance.

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