Jo Walton ([info]papersky) wrote,
@ 2007-11-30 14:42:00
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SF and the human condition
[info]janni was talking this morning about how when you read a mainstream book sometimes you want to say "Get over it and go and save the world instead", and other times the real world problems of the mainstream book are sufficiently interesting that you don't wish the place would suddenly be infested with a plague of dragons. (I am reminded of [info]perkinwarbeck2's review of Mill on the Floss that suggested it would be a much better book with an added alien invasion plot.)

This connects up with something I was thinking.

When one reads something, anything, the characters have problems. Maybe the problems are boring and have been seen before -- and this applies just as much to the space cadet who keeps getting bullied because he's the only human in the starship school -- but in SF there's always the interesting possibility of the world surprising you. Even when it doesn't, even if the answers all turn out to be predictable, the SF reader has still had a good experience because there was always the possibility of being surprised... and if the worst comes to the worst, at least they saved the world.

Everything, really, is about the human condition. SF lets you talk about the human condition more widely and from different angles by contrasting it with the alien condition and the AI condition and the android condition, but really, the readers and writers are human. In SF, you get books like Spin and Cyteen where new and interesting problems (aliens speeding up the rotation of the Earth, cloning and life extension tech) ask new and interesting questions about the human condition. Most of the things mainstream books hbave to say about it have been said before, and even encountered before in real life. They havve limited options to examine. In mainstream to get new questions that haven't been asked before about the human condition you have to get masterpieces like Ian McEwan's Atonement, but SF gives you constant new angles for getting at things.

But the problem with recommending SF to the non-SF reader is that they have no filters. If you give them Spin and they are knocked over by it, they're likely to grab Into the Slave Nebula (a book I'm actually very fond of) and they're not going to have the experience an SF reader has of expecting to be surprised, they're going to conclude it's crap and likely dismiss the whole genre. Or they're going to think you mean that SF predicts tomorrows problems and try to read it as futurology, where SF is terrible at that considered individually, but not bad considered as an experience. But that's why they latch onto SF by non-SF writers, I think, the ideas are genuinely new, and the style is OK, and the pacing isn't scary, (SF pacing is a rant for another day) and the book is by damn saying something new about the human condition. Shikasta is a truly terrible book in all sorts of ways, but even so.

Yesterday, when I had no brain, I entered the first 108 books on my shelf (alpha by author) into LibraryThing. I wasn't surprised that of that first 108 books, the one most other people owned was Pride and Prejudice. I was surprised that the one that came second, above all the other Austen (I have all of Austen, worse luck), above everything I own starting with A, was The Handmaid's Tale. I own all Atwood's novels and some of her short story collections (some of her poetry too, but that's on a different shelf) and none of them were anywhere near The Handmaid's Tale.

The Handmaid's Tale is a good book. I like it. I don't think it's brilliantly original, but then when I read it I'd read Suzette Hayden Elgin's Native Tongue and Sherri Tepper's The Gate to Women's Country and various other things within SF that were playing with feminism and dystopia. It isn't clunky the way a lot of SF written by non SF-readers is, largely because utopic/dystopic is a mode that arose outside SF and isn't so challenging to write, and also because Atwood's a pretty good SF writer. (I'd have nominated Oryx and Crake for the John W. Campbell Memorial Hard SF or Solidly SF Anyway, Really We Mean It Award.)

But in any case, among people who have entered their A books into Library Thing, it is outstandingly more popular than all her other books, and that may be because it was made into a film, but I think it's because it's saying something about the human condition they can't say because they're confining themselves to quotidian and thus limiting their options, and they need an alien invasion, or to go out and save the world.


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[info]al_zorra
2007-11-30 08:01 pm UTC (link)
Atwood is one of my top favorite writers. Her The Robber Bride, featuring a well-known fairy tale trope turned topsy-turvy feminist fairy tale, featuring among the primary female protagonists (united in fascination with the primary female antagonist)a war historian, is my favorite of all her books.

Love, C.

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[info]papersky
2007-11-30 08:14 pm UTC (link)
That's also my favourite of her books.

And it's fantasy, or at least the Charis/Karen sections are.

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[info]al_zorra
2007-11-30 09:57 pm UTC (link)
Fantasy it is, yes, particularly with that fairy tale generation.

Love, C.

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[info]janni
2007-11-30 09:17 pm UTC (link)
Interesting thoughts about how SF tropes can either deepen the ways in which one looks at character, or become a refuge/thing to keep reading for when one fails to take advantage of that potential deepening ...

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[info]beamjockey
2007-11-30 09:34 pm UTC (link)
I look forward to reading your SF pacing rant someday.

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[info]kateelliott
2007-11-30 09:40 pm UTC (link)
Great post - but I'm really posting to say I also look forward to reading your SF pacing rant.

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[info]agrumer
2007-11-30 09:47 pm UTC (link)
On the other hand, I find a lot of SF talks about the same old things that mainstream fiction talks about, only dresses it up with aliens and ray guns, either to keep you from noticing at first that it's the same old mundane issue again (Star Trek is famous for this), or to avoid having to do real-world research.

Oh, and to avoid charges of racism. SF and fantasy have the feature that you can portray an entire species or race as Really And Truly Evil or Stupid or whatever, and not get as many complaints as if you'd used brutish Africans or wily Orientals.

And one advantage to set-in-the-real-world fiction is that it gives you the possibility of being surprised by real-world things. For instance, I read Orwell's Down and Out in Paris and London a year or two back, and his description of who the head chef at a smart Paris restaurant handles the food was surprising, and more shocking for the knowledge that real-world chefs actually did this.

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[info]rysmiel
2007-11-30 10:02 pm UTC (link)
Oh, and to avoid charges of racism. SF and fantasy have the feature that you can portray an entire species or race as Really And Truly Evil or Stupid or whatever, and not get as many complaints as if you'd used brutish Africans or wily Orientals.

Given that humans have small children, the mentally and otherwise ill, and people with capacities reduced to whatever extent by reason of aging, I would hope that SF's potential for portraying situations where there are very overt and inarguable imbalances of power of that sort could be used to address the actual ethical complexities of well handling irreducible imbalances of power by means somewhat more sophisticated than egalitarianism-at-the-wrong-scale, but I'm at a loss for good examples of same, unless what The Iron Dream is doing, leaving aside that it's way too long for the point it's making, counts. [ "Harrison Bergeron" points out the problem of such scale errors, but does not really go beyond slapping you in the face with said problem. ]

It has just occurred to me that sort of puts The Iron Dream in the same category as Speaker for the Dead.

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[info]papersky
2007-12-01 12:44 pm UTC (link)
Douglas Adams, interviewed on publication of Dirk Gently said that he now understood why most writers didn't destroy the Earth on the first page of their books, it gave them so many settings and details for free.

Down and Out is non-fiction, or thinly disguised autobiography, so it's hardly comparable to an SF novel, but novels set in the real world also definitely get impact from the knowledge that this is real.

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[info]carandol
2007-11-30 10:41 pm UTC (link)
I've been reading a H Rider Haggard novel, _Marie_ and I found myself thinking that the thing it most reminded me of was CJ Cherryh's Chanur books. There's Allen Quatermain, in the camp of Dingaan, a particularly capricious and brutal Zulu king, trying to negotiate a peace with the Boers, another group not renowned for their tolerance and peaceable tendencies. And it really reminded me of Pyanfar among the Kif, that constant walking on eggshells and having to be very careful what you say because one wrong word and you suddenly die. I don't know whether the Zulus and the Boers were really as they are portrayed (though the events are pretty historical), but for a Victorian audience they made wonderful aliens.

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[info]timprov
2007-11-30 11:08 pm UTC (link)
I think the main reason so many people own A Handmaid's Tale is that it's a very common part of college English curricula. The University of St. Thomas here has made it the book every freshman has to read this year, which has not gone over well with our conservative columnist.

I've been experimenting with recommending SF to non-SF readers. Last year about this time I sent copies of Growing Up Weightless to a bunch of the non-SF readers on my friendslist. I didn't get as much response back as I would have liked, but I should probably write up some of the data anyway.

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[info]sylvia_rachel
2007-12-01 01:07 am UTC (link)
I think the main reason so many people own A Handmaid's Tale is that it's a very common part of college English curricula. The University of St. Thomas here has made it the book every freshman has to read this year, which has not gone over well with our conservative columnist.

Interesting! We read it in my grade 11 or maybe grade 12 English class (circa 1991-1992), along with 1984 and Animal Farm. (I had pinched it off my mum's nightstand and read it several years earlier, but got more out of it the second time round. Twelve is perhaps a bit young for that book.) I don't recall any objections from anywhere.

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[info]ladystarstruck
2007-12-01 01:33 am UTC (link)
Something I have realized about LibraryThing, and keep in mind whenever judging a book's supposed popularity, is that it's biased toward speculative fiction, due to the nature of it being an internet database. I am making the possibly dangerous assumption that internet users are more likely to read SF than non-internet users who could never figure out LibraryThing. This renders all popularity statistics suspect.

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[info]papersky
2007-12-01 12:47 pm UTC (link)
But then why would Pride and Prejudice rank so highly? And why would the other Atwood rank above Foundation?

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[info]pilgrim_eye
2007-12-01 04:24 pm UTC (link)
Ladystarstruck has a very valid general point, and perhaps even a valid specific point -- but as internet adoption has spread, the patterns do gradually reflect the general population rather than subsets. When I first started using the web for research (~1985?), when the web was just emerging from the scientific-academic culture that gave birth to it, you could get pages of hits on volcanoes and radio telescopes, and absolutely zip, nada, zilch on "how to build a rabbit hutch," "grapefruit recipe," "Mozart," or "scrapbooking."

Still, I find it interesting to consider exactly what subset we are in: "humans wealthy enough to have the internet, technically adept enough to use it obsessively, and both social enough and bibliophilic enough to be drawn to use LT."

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[info]beable
2007-12-01 03:40 am UTC (link)

If I had a time machine I would go back to my grade 10 English class. My teacher had us doing book reports and the choice of the book was ours except "No science fiction except Tolkien".

Now admittedly there were numerous guys in the class addicted to gaming books (Dragonlance , Forgotten Realms, etc). But she also tarred the whole genre as crap. Not to mention that Tolkien isn't science fiction.

But if I had a time machine I would ask her if
a) it was really better that I did my book report on some crappy Sidney Sheldon book than on a science fiction or fantasy one and
b) Whether she meant to also exclude Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, and Mary Shelley with her ultimatum.

Not that I'm still bitter. On a different note I have realized that for the most part I do not understand mainstream fiction. All the stuff that makes the Globe picks list like the Stone Diaries or whatever the book du jour is just confuse me. They seem like soap opera books. They aren't about anything that matters.

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[info]martin_wisse
2007-12-01 08:41 am UTC (link)
My experiences with the English literature list were much better: I managed to only read scinece fiction or fantasy on my final list, with the exception of Hamlet and even that is arguable.

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[info]papersky
2007-12-01 12:51 pm UTC (link)
There's a remarkable amount of unremarkable crap in those lists. But there's a lot of unremarkable crap in SF too, you just have the mechanism for recognising it so you ignore it.

Read Ian McEwan's Atonement. I bet they have it in your library.

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[info]life_on_queen
2007-12-01 03:47 am UTC (link)
Thank you. I'm doing an MA in Creative Writing at the moment and was having trouble verbalizing why I believe that writing horror is a valid way to approach the human experience. May I quote you?

Also - Margaret Atwood is the great evil but I appreciate your appreciation of her. ;)

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[info]papersky
2007-12-01 12:56 pm UTC (link)
Of course you may quote me, for whatever good it would do!

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[info]asyouknow_bob
2007-12-01 05:25 am UTC (link)
(And welcome to LibraryThing. For book people, it's like crack.)

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[info]darius
2007-12-01 02:40 pm UTC (link)
I wonder if this is why there were so many disappointed reviews for the Baroque Cycle -- that they weren't reading it as SF.

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[info]nancylebov
2007-12-02 12:01 pm UTC (link)
Nitpick: _Spin_ is about time on Earth being drastically slowed relative to the rest of the universe.

_Diaspora_ by Egan is probably the best sf novel set in the far fringes of possibility I've read--have you read it?

I'm very fond of _Into the Slave Nebula_, too, but I just can't believe that androids could be kept out of the money economy. Related book with similar problematic big surprise: _Halfway Human_ by Gilman.

Aside from the social and political aspects (and how fast and dangerously could our governments turn against any of us?) _Handmaid's Tale_ struck me for a real page turner in which it seemed as though rather little happened.

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